Narrator:
Welcome to the supply chain visibility stories, the podcast for supply chain managers, brought to you by ACSIS, the 100% supply chain visibility cloud solution provider, supply chain visibility stories is hosted by Bill Wohl, a technology industry veteran and enterprise software professional.

Bill Wohl:
Thanks everyone for joining us. us. Today marks the next in a series of discussions exploring a variety of business-related topics looking at the intersection of technology and business. Now, our discussions are designed to be brief and focused, maybe 10 to 12 minutes and we're hoping this podcast format inspires our audience to think about how technology impacts their own organization and to engage with us as our series continues. I'll have a discussion about how to engage with the series and our guest at the end of today's discussion. I'm Bill Wohl and I'm honored to be the host of this series brought to you by ACSIS. I've been working in the technology sector since the late 1990s, including more than a few years at ERP supplier SAP. So, I'm constantly fascinated by the way companies meet business challenges and use technology to do it. When we started this series, we pretty much looked at the macro trends facing companies today and learned pretty quickly there's a new and renewed focus on global supply chains. So, we're digging a bit deeper and we're going to continue to do that today with our guest John DiPalo. John, welcome.

John DiPalo:
Bill, thanks for having me once again. Appreciate it. Always good to talk with you.

Bill Wohl:
For our audience, John is the chief strategy officer at Access, a leading technology player in the supply chain space. So, John, let's dig in a little bit here. In our last conversation, we talked about the challenge customers face in figuring out how to get started. So, you talked about assembling the right team and having the right skill set. Let's talk about product for a second because I think as we've explored in the first four pad podcasts of this series, we've pretty much determined companies are facing an information gap out at the edge in understanding where finished goods and goods in progress are actually really located. So I would imagine you're about to tell us that one of the ways to solve that information gap is to figure out how to keep an eye on goods at every step of the process. Right down to the individual item, say sub-batch level, is that right?

John DiPalo:
I think that that's a big part of it Bill you know I the what we have seen is the world has changed you know it wasn't just all related to COVID, but even before that we started to see the change in how product moved through this supply chain in you know companies wanting to do smaller batches of product mix loads out to customers customers expectations rising, consumers expectations rising about understanding where things are, you know, the rise of sustainability,  the rise of counterfeiting unfortunately and diversion across our supply chain. So there's a lot of dynamics going on and it continues to get more complex and the need for traceability becomes more important on a daily basis.

Bill Wohl:
So traceability as a topic feels like regulated industries is that where that got started? 

John DiPalo:
Yeah, I think you can you can certainly take a look at the last, let's say 10 to 15 years of where the pharmaceutical industry has been starting with Florida e-pedigree and then moving into the DSCSA, which is the federal mandate for serialization at the saleable unit for product entering the pharmaceutical supply chain.

Bill Wohl:
Mhm.

John DiPalo:
And companies have spent a lot of time and effort in serializing their supply chains. And now after that effort, I think we're starting to see those companies that have put, you know, the systems in place really be able to understand what the value of traceability is. Not just fulfilling a mandate, but really understanding where their product is, what state it's in. And there's a whole bunch of dynamics and additional value points that get that are made available once that level of visibility comes to a company, and they can take advantage of that.

Bill Wohl:
I know serialization as a broad term, covers this topic of identifying goods both finished and unfinished. What's the true definition from where you sit for supply chain for serialization?

John DiPalo:
Yeah, serialization sometimes can be a word that has multiple meanings and a little bit of a double-edged sword to people wanting to undertake that journey. You know, it's often looked at as you know highly complex, requiring a lot of process changes and changes you know within a manufacturing or distribution process. But again like all things supply chain there are various levels that companies can go to in order to start the process of identifying products at a more granular level to be able to see their journey be able to understand where they are. You know in a fast-moving conser goods product as an example you know, it may not be necessary, you know, to serialize every salailable item, but maybe at the case level or maybe at the pallet level. You know, in high-value items, you know, certainly it makes sense to serialize at the lowest possible level, but you really need to look at it on a case-by-case basis, understanding your short-term and then ultimately your long-term objectives by marking product and tracking it at a more granular level.




Bill Wohl:
Is this as simple as barcoding and scanning or does it go as far as as assigning an actual serial number to a product? And I guess you're going to tell me it varies based on the type of good, right?

John DiPalo:
Yeah, you know, certainly it does vary, but I think when companies embark on a journey of unique identification, which is almost the way that I like to refer to it versus serialization, they need to think about a number of different dimensions. So, how I'm going to mark my product is one dimension. So, you know, we've seen companies and we work with companies today that are marking their products in some cases with multiple data carriers. So it can be RFID for manufacturing, it can be QR code for consumer engagement. It can be you know barcoding for downstream distribution partners. The trick and the key to this process is being able to link all of those identifiers together. Being able to approach things with that multimodal approach so that everyone throughout the supply chain can gain additional value. But you as a brand owner or a stakeholder in the process can also make it easier for the people you're working with to engage with your product. You know, I like to think of it as, you know, how can I make my product more intelligent? How can I add context data to the product as it goes through my supply chain and then use that serialization or that unique identifier as the key to tie all of that information together?

Bill Wohl:
It's interesting as we talk about this that some of what we've learned as consers in the BTOC space now applies in the B2B space. I'm struck by the example of, you know, I buy products as a conser and sometimes I have to exchange them for different sizes or return them. Some companies seem to be really good at this, and others aren't. Like I know companies where I can ship a product back and two weeks later, if I'm lucky, I see the return, but a really upfront business. As soon as the UPS driver scans the package, I get an email saying, "Thanks for returning your product and your and your exchange has been processed." So, what you're talking about is a level of sophistication where an action creates an activity in the system, and that's what you mean by bringing the supply chain sort of alive so that it's not just a data capture, it actually triggers a response in the system.

John DiPalo:
Absolutely. You know, and when we look in the in the B2B world or in the B2B2C world, you know, as you start to think about how can I overlay unique item identification to track product throughout that entire process, there are different things that you're going want to and different actions you're going to want to attach to that serial nber as it moves through the process. You know, I can't tell you how many companies that I've talked to today that when a product gets returned to them, they can't with 100% accuracy understand what was that product sold at, when was it sold, you know, to whom it was sold. And, you know, being able to start to tie those type of attributes to products as they go out into the supply chain allows you to really close the loop on different business processes that would have great value to your organization if you had that information.
Bill Wohl:
So, the goal here, if I understand you correctly, is to create you could unique identifiers to try to find deficiencies in the supply chain. Right. It's one thing when it's working. It's when it's not working that's creating all this business pain and cost.

John DiPalo:
Yeah. And I think there's at least two dimensions. There's probably more than that in that process. So, you know, I like to think of serialization as a tool that companies can use to not only close challenges within their business processes, but if I'm serializing product as it moves through my manufacturing and distribution environment. I can now spot micro inefficiencies in those processes that I would never be able to find if it was not serialized. And closing those micro inefficiencies has huge advantages to operational efficiency and OEE and all of the other metrics that we want to track. And then if you think about it even downstream, what companies and a lot of companies that we talk to are, you know, putting a lot of effort into now because of the complexity of ordering and other things is how can I achieve the perfect order for my customer? So, right product at the right time with the right paperwork. If you do serialization and you do it right, it's virtually impossible to ship out a non-perfect order because the components will be tracked as they're going out. The product will be aggregated to the order. We can even serialize the paperwork as an example and tie all of that together and then just think about the downstream efficiency of being able to tell your customer that I'm always going to ship you the perfect order. It's always going to be what you ordered. I'm going to be able to tell you in advance what's coming at a very very granular level. And then there's all kinds of additional supply chain efficiencies that can come from that information.

Bill Wohl:
Talk about the topic of diversion and the importance of anti-divers efforts. Where does that fit into what you just described?

John DiPalo:
Certainly, it fits in the multi-ter distribution environment that we're in now. You know, we have examples of customers in multiple industries that are finding their products in places that they didn't expect them to be. And as the distribution and ordering world has changed, you know, with the rise of online ordering and product, you know, kind of going through that supply chain at a very rapid pace, this ability to track product from a diversion perspective, ensure that the product you're selling through different channels is being sold at the right price and to the right people is more important now than ever. And then you know the other piece is as you start to think about how I can manage understanding where that product goes because now I have a much richer data set that I can analyze where individual batches are split between different distribution channels and things like that. The analytics, machine learning and ultimately artificial intelligence that can come from that level of data is a very compelling option.

Bill Wohl:
Can you give me an example of what a diversion might look like and how it would be avoided?

John DiPalo:
Yeah, so we're working with a company now and they happen to be in the cosmetic space and they have a big challenge with product that's actually showing up on Amazon that they never intended for it to. And what they want to be able to do is actually buy product from those Amazon sellers. Scan the serial number of the product and be able to track it back through its life cycle to get the bad actors out of their supply chain. So that's just a simple example that you can think about. There are you know literally you know hundreds more in different industries that we could go and talk about but you know just the process of being able to track a product forwards and backwards through your supply chain is huge for diversion and counterfeiting issues.

Bill Wohl:
That's an interesting example. As we wrap up today's podcast, I'm struck by the same challenge we faced when we talked in the previous event, which is getting started. And I suspect one of the first challenges is sort of understanding are you serializing at the individual item or at the case level?  How do you and how do companies make that decision?

John DiPalo:
Yeah, I think part of it is, again, mapping out your supply chain and how product is shipped through your supply chain. Understanding ultimately how that product gets broken out and consed by your customers be it B2B or B2C and then also looking at the flow of you know how product is manufactured how you're going to mark product because again there's there's an opportunity to start in one form factor and move to another as you start to gain results from your serialization effort. So it's not always a decision you have to make immediately upfront. It is something that can evolve over time, and putting the foundation in place in order to support those changes long-term is key to success there.

Bill Wohl:
It strikes me as we wrap up our conversation today, John, that there is much left to unpack. It's like pulling open the layers of an onion. You can just keep going deeper and deeper and eventually, you're going to find a lot of the answers and I think that'll be great for our audience. John, thanks for joining.

John DiPalo:
Thank you, Bill.

Bill Wohl:
That wraps up today's podcast. My thanks to Access's John DiPalo for joining and to ACSIS for making this podcast series possible. We welcome your comments and questions, and I know John would welcome the opportunity to answer them. You can engage with us at the official ACSIS Twitter and LinkedIn accounts. So, please join that discussion. I'm your host Bill Wohl. Till next time. And for everyone at ACSIS, thanks for joining. We look forward to our next podcast. Talk soon.

Narrator:
Thank you for listening to Supply Chain Visibility Stories. Brought to you by ACSIS, the 100% supply chain visibility cloud solution provider. Visit us on the web at ACSISinc.com. That's ACSISinc.com. Or join the dialogue on social media. Look for ACSIS Inc. on LinkedIn and Twitter. Join us next time for supply chain visibility stories brought to you by ACSIS.